I also note that you are obsessed with the term, masturbation, no wonder, when thrill is the objective. 11000 years old. July 2013 Words will never determine who is right. Meropis has a big black whole in its middle: There is Europe, and there is the opposite continent (of which there is talk also in the Phaedon), but there is no Atlantis in the Atlantic. No you don't. According to researchers, some 3,000 years ago, the mysterious ‘flourishing’ Bronze Age civilization from the Eastern Mediterranean called the ‘Sea Peoples’ suddenly vanished from history. Apparently, since no one has really provided the necessary proof of Plato's Atlantis, a proof to satisfy both the cons and pros, the experiment to prove the immortality of the soul is still left incomplete, like the story of Atlantis. Providing physical proof of Atlantis is all about providing proof for the existence of the soul and the reincarnation it goes through. It had three harbors and was swallowed up by the sea and vanished. The reason, why searching for Atlantis and searching for Plato's cave is not the same, is simply, because the types of text are not the same. Historical-critical. Wow! Potentially. Pretending you know what Plato meant is amusing. Let me guess: it's not about Atlantis because the word "Atlantis" doesn't appear in it. Plato did really mean to leave off the Critias dialogue in the middle of a sentence and therefore the story of Atlantis incomplete. Agreed? Wilhelm von Christ puts forward rather a hypothesis than a ready-made theory, and the background are the bold claims of Atlantis skeptics. Yet others comment on Plato's story so there would still be mention of it - the Roman's commented on the story and a parody play/story about it called Meropis was written too. You could also give them talking head footage about The House of Life. "Story" suffices. Atlantis was a different vehicle to get at some of his favorite themes." Ancient Astronauts I have a deep understanding for you that you are confused with the categories of logos and mythos, and the types of mythos, applying here. We may also earn commissions on purchases from other retail websites. I mentioned that the German scholar Wilhelm von Christ was the first to suggest that the Sea Peoples could be identified with the people of Atlantis. December 2012 But then someone will really get hurt by the truth. Departure or disappearance of Atlantis-island vessel and the devastating tsunami that followed forced the people of the Sea to take refuge on the nearest land. The Dorian Invasion. January 2015 They're using Zachary Quinto as their featured talent !! Historical-critical. Fall of the Hittites. Two different things. All The second statement is more probable as the Atlanteans had enough military to take down 4-5 civilizations. If you are meaning mental excitement caused by reflecting on Atlantis, than it cannot be masturbation, since Plato is providing the stimulus and foreplay. There are things that, due to their nature, or the passage of long periods of time, cannot be known and remain enigmas. You can read more, now, on the Livescience website(z) . Historical-critical. I mean, Atlantis just has to be presented in roses and gold, anything less and people might not believe it! May 2018 Do you read Middle Ages chroniclers literally? Written by Frederik Woudhuizen and Eberhard Zangger, the authors offer a translation of a 3200-year-old inscription That may refer to the Sea Peoples and linking them with western Turkey. Well, if we consider "story" as a neutral word (could be true, could be wrong, just any kind of narration), then simply everything is a story, isn't it? What is all the confusion about, the civilization we call Atlantis was destroyed when Santorini blew up and ended what we call the Minoan, an Aegean bronze age civilization. Jason, I think you made a mistake. As it is with every other ancient text. Historical-critical. February 2016 February 2018 I can see that to your mind I should have said '"a story about a story about a story" is exactly the same as "a story"'. @Hanslune: January 2017 The capital city of Atlantis (home of the North Sea people) lay on an island, in the estuary of great rivers. Do you read Herodotus literally? The Sea Peoples are a purported seafaring confederation that attacked ancient Egypt and other regions of the East Mediterranean prior to and during the Late Bronze Age collapse (1200–900 BCE). Conspiracies NO. For Wilhelm von Christ it is plainly clear that the Atlantis story cannot be read in a literal sense. NO. Historical-critical. December 2011 Have fun pretending. Please, allow me to be rude for the sake of the nature of the exchanges you all have here. The seapower they commanded from Etruria, their accomplishments in city planning, public works projects, irrigation, bronze manufacture and the arts were all drawn on a truly Atlantean scale. Was that the definite end of a longer climate change, that started earlier and forced people to move from areas now stricken by drought? November 2011 This can be easily resolved by your FINDING Atlantis. This is highly speculative idea has failed to bear fruit as have all efforts to identify the location of the other three cities, Falias, Finias and Gorias. But it is not an invention, it is a mistake. I would be interesting to see how much of it still remains. Historical-critical. Were the Atlanteans the “Sea People”. The cave is presented as an analogy, so basically as an invention. Trude & Moshe Dothan have added another valuable book to the Sea Peoples literature with their People of the Sea, which has the interesting sub-title of The Search for the Philistines. Historical-critical. [CDATA[ The confusion surrounding the Sea Peoples is exemplified by the response to a question on the quora.com website(af). As I said at first, both sides are wrong because both sides claims to know. The Sea People were first documented in Egypt around 1200 years BC during the 19th Dynasty. Relentless attacks by groups known as the Sea Peoples around 1200 BC virtually destroyed all the major powers of the Mediterranean, and cleared the way for the rise of the Greeks, Romans and Western civilization. 451-512. Before going pro or con on Atlantis, you all have better understand Plato. Alternative Archaeology Say, a squirrel crossed my yard yesterday, is that evidence for bigfoot even though its a completely different animal? But only when Plato reincarnates in our times to finish his Critias, and writes the Hermocrates, and the Philosopher dialogues. How true! "mythos" is any kind of statement which is not supported by any argument or evidence. A paper by Andres Pääbo charts their story(k). So let me see if I get this straight - And believe me: You only can go fail, here. Racism This can be "just a story", but it can be so much more ... it even can be a true story. August 2017 Now you're bouncing back and forth between "is not called a mythos in the original text" (2/7/2018) and "Plato explicitly writes that the story is not a mythos". Horror Sea peoples were 1200 BC give or take 50 years either side and their origins are all guesswork. Zach Zorich is a freelance journalist and contributing editor at Archaeology magazine. You: "Sigh ... why do you always flee into word-mongering in the end?" October 2018 February 2010, But since I’m on the subject of Atlantis, I thought I’d pick up on something I mentioned briefly the other day. September 2014 Eberhard Zangger argues that the Sea Peoples were survivors of the Trojan War that fled to various parts of both central and eastern Mediterranean(g). He's a philosopher, he's a historian, he's a dessert topping, he's a floor wax! COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM EVERYONE ELSE WHO EVER WROTE ABOUT THEMSELVES. Is that about it? NO. February 2012 Projects September 2020 Nah, when Plato wrote his story he knew the world was much bigger than what he knew about and he wrote world wide to take into account the entire planet he was trying to write an impressive story you know - can you prove he didn't do that? I made my ancient Greek exam with top mark, and followed so many traces of this word in ancient Greek literature, that I can tell you with good conscience: No, not true. Potentially. Alternative History It's just not worth going all the way to Europe to shoot 3 minutes of video! April 2019 Either those souls of old have not yet reincarnated at the proper time, or, like fools like us, have drunk too much water of forgetfulness, and cannot remember the world of ideas, the spiritual world, the world that only the mind's eye can see. You're one of those guys who likes to cite himself; we seen vatos like you before, ese. NO. Odd isn't it? Your "arguments" are so ridiculous, so full of logical fallacies or simply emotional rejection ... it is a waste of time even to read them, it really hurts ... @Hanslune: Ancient History Is the name of that elephant: No evidence? //]]> Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History. The First Effort to Identify Atlantis with the Sea Peoples. The debate regarding their true identity has been ongoing for a long time and will probably continue as long as the chronologies of the Middle East are not fully harmonised to the satisfaction of all. February 2019 January 2011 And now I am writing and writing and writing everything what is needed to present an appropriate proposal for a real place for Atlantis. So for the public, and this forum here, the question is open. The Malagabay website published a lengthy article(t) in July 2016, offering evidence along with some conjecture, supporting the radical idea that the Sea Peoples had originated in India and having migrated westward, some of them reached the Aegean and became known as Dorians! June 2011 Hanslue, January 2012 The real proof of Atlantis is in that other world, the one seen by the mind's eye. Historical-critical. December 2017 You run off. Historical-critical. NO. We don't assume Hogwarts or Narnia are real for the same reason. The migration was most likely the result of widespread crop failures and famine.”(d). March 2010 May 2020 Perhaps I'm pretending to know Plato, and just taunting you as you do others. There is an extensive bibliography of books and papers relating to the ‘Philistines and other Sea Peoples’ available online (last updated 16.09.19)(ap).>In addition there is a comprehensive compilation of all primary sources of references to the Sea Peoples and its constituent members also available(ar).<, (a) https://www.beepworld.de/members62/rwk_atlantis/, (b) https://web.archive.org/web/20130718184625/http:/forums.atlantisrising.com:80/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000855.html, (c) https://web.archive.org/web/20200705114204/http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/headgear.htm, (d) https://web.archive.org/web/20181014190855/https://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/seapeople.htm, (e) https://web.archive.org/web/20080820154251/https://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000911.html, (f) https://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/Ancient_Ships/17_sea_peoples.html, (g) https://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue/199503/who.were.the.sea.people.htm, (h) https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsMiddEast/AnatoliaSeaPeoples.htm, (j) https://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/Ancient_Ships/17_sea_peoples.html, (l) https://web.archive.org/web/20200701073849/http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/index.htm, (m) https://web.archive.org/web/20060903164435/http:/dscholarship.lib.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1199&context=undergrad, (n) https://web.archive.org/web/20200403114043/http://www.museodeidolmen.it/englishdefault.html, (o) https://web.archive.org/web/20200125223822/http://www.museodeidolmen.it/englishpopomare.html, (p) Abhandlungen der bayerischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, Vol. Mental masturbation would be a case where one is excited by an original idea, meaning, self though and completely independent of external excitement. July 2011 Atlantis Clearly further investigation wll be required to confirm these indications. One such high profile identification in the 20th century was by Spyridon Marinatos. He then identified these Scandinavians as Atlanteans who later attacked Egypt. Because they are not. These shows don't even pay the talking heads very much as they expect you to benefit from book sales. You do it all the time. And he also, purposely, did not write the two other dialogues I mentioned. Historical-critical. The “Sea Peoples” have long been suspected of playing a key role in ending the prosperous Bronze Age in the eastern Mediterranean, and plunging many societies into prolonged dark periods. Archaeology It is a short text, since it is only a surviving summary, the original is lost. @Bob Jase: He was Oscar nominated as a producer, not a director (Twist of Faith, 2004, Best Documentary)- however, his directing work has also been in the documentary field. Then, I wonder why you talk of the Greek word "mythos". Wilhelm von Christ (1831-1906) was a Classical scholar from the Duchy of Nassau, later part of the Kingdom of Prussia and the German Empire. The Atlantis tradition is not presented as mythos. All rights reserved. May 2017 Angered by this neglect, the four giants agree to let the sky tumble down and crash into the sea. I refuse to call it a myth; it was a story, a parable. Thorwald C. Franke, Kritische Geschichte, 2016; pp. Give me evidence of a tale that existed BEFORE Plato's dialogue was written, and THEN we can talk about how "real" Atlantis was. Today you don't need a special crew to do a shoot; a single person with a camera and some lights can do it. This book discusses what we know concerning Ancient Peoples such as the Sea Peoples, Phoenicians, Hyperboreans, Haunebu, Etruscans, Hebrews, Danites, and others. He also comments that identifying the Shekelesh with Sicily and the Shardana with Sardinia is based in part on the ‘consonantal similarities’[p.4].>In a separate paper he suggests that “the chaos and destructions wrought by the Sea Peoples may have created a power vacuum which allowed the Israelites to take over the land of Canaan.” <. April 2013 The next step would be to find out which point in time really was meant by the dates given by ancient Greeks. You know this production is lame before it starts. You've been working on this for what 20 years and you STILL don't know where it is? It is a pity. All other civilizations have left massive archaeological footprints. Well, you can't present the true historical facts without complete artistic freedom. It looks to me that they want their own camera an sound crew. Historical-critical. God only knows the truth. September 2011 were the Atlanteans even though they came from a different place at a different time and interacted with different people? If we had any reason to suppose that an Island of Atlantis existed then we wouldn't have any evidence that the so called Sea peoples didn't come from there. Yes? August 2011 They highlight the complexities involved in definitively identifying the members of the varying alliances that were loosely described as the ‘Sea Peoples’ over a three hundred year period. Sadly mainstream ancient history is far from free of the idea that if you can show that the timescale suggested by our only sources are wrong you can therefore move the events to any when you want to. Liberalism. Yes, I take Julius Caesar's writings literally. July 2014 Occult You people do not understand Plato. Forer belief is equal to yours - a belief based on well just belief. Plato who wrote about atlantis said that Atlantis was 9,000 years before his time (~300bc) and he heard the story from Critias who heard it … Phaedon and the Republic. No matter how much you push words around it will never solves the problem basic problem - of no Atlantis. May 2019 "Story" of course is the Ancient Greek meaning of μῦθος . Related to their work, is the result of recent excavations at Ashkelon, an important Philistine city, which suggests that the city had received migrants from southern Europe during the Bronze Age, who may have constituted a component of the Sea Peoples(ah). Giants Several scholars at the end of the 19th centuries clearly expressed this incommensurability of the two stories. So once again we will 'learn' that Atlantis was real just as Plato wrote except that it was in a different place at a different time inhabited by a different epople with a different civilization. December 2014 We have to be precise, here. If we replace Atlantis with the Sea People, we would get a fairly accurate account of the invasions of the Sea Peoples up to the assaults against Athens and Mycene. Quite a number of writers have identified the Atlanteans as the Sea Peoples whose invasion of the Eastern Mediterranean has been recorded in some detail by the Egyptians. Sure, why not? It only seems so. Whether it makes sense to search for Atlantis is an other question. But the people of Israel was formed only after the Sea Peoples wars from local tribes (Finkelstein/Silberman: The Bible Unearthed, 2001). October 2014 How about 'No Atlantis'? He has written further on this identification and more on the Luwian Studies website(s). Logically, would you not have to know yourself to tell another that he does not know? It is not a myth." The prominent part played by the Berbers in varying alliances that constituted the Sea Peoples is highlighted. November 2017 The phrase was later popularised by another French Egyptologist, Gaston Maspero (1846-1916). July 2018 Habsburgs Not that different. This evidence includes a variety of features that Egyptians used to portray the Sea Peoples such as types of swords, shape of ships, shields and helmets as well as hair, clothing and shaving fashions. And Plato's dialogues are full of real and true stories, although the dialogues are mostly (if not all) invented. It is a story, true or false, allegedly handed down over time. October 2011 The Sea Peoples mentioned are the Shardana, Lukka, and Shekeleshu (Sicily?). A place, that is coded into the bible as Capthor, in which the Philistines are the Sea Peoples who inhabited the island as Palestine and who then went to battle against their biblical foes, Israel. Plato wanted to put to the test the existence and immortality of the soul, as taught by his beloved master, Socrates. The Oxford Companion to the Bible is certain that the Sea Peoples were originally Mycenaean, who moved south, following the collapse of their civilisation at the end of the Late Bronze Age. @Hanslune: November 2020 XVII, 2nd part, Munich 1886, pp. It is funny how Atlantis skeptics desperately stick to their claim, although one argument after the other slips through their fingers. Of course, this is wrong. (x) Is the historical core big enough to call Atlantis real? But I feel that you thrill yourself by believing to be some kind of champion of facts. I'm sure they would be happy to help under these circumstances. October 2017 I see your wording "Not that different" as the admittance that there is indeed some sort of difference. How "People of the Sea" Came to Be The Egyptians originally coined the name "Peoples of the Sea" for the foreign contingents that the Libyans brought in to support their attack on Egypt in c. 1220 BC during the reign of Pharaoh Merneptah. Why don't all these Atlantis enthusiasts instead concentrate on looking for Plato's famous cave, where so many poor people have been trapped staring at shadows for thousands of years? July 2010 NO. Some parts of this theory have been published already, yet not its core. Only one thing: March 2013 Quite recently Spanuth’s ideas have also been echoed by Walter Baucum in his Bronze Age Atlantis. I repeat myself: And don't ask me to explain it in detail, if you did already not grasp the analogy of the TMS clip I posted. NO. NO. You failed to establish the pervasion. Julius Caesar? The coining of the term in 1855 is now generally attributed to French Egyptologist, Emmanuel de Rougé who used the term peuples de la mer (literally “peoples of the sea”) in a description of reliefs at Medinet Habu. This is the key point in understanding it as a story. @Hanslune: Opening up the possibility of a real Atlantis is one thing. NO. Of course, Tertullian's opinion does count. At first glance it looks odd, yet with some background knowledge these two different events could be brought into connection. He was convinced that Murias one of the legendary cities of the de Danann had been located in Bimini. This is what all the authors tell us. It should be interesting to see who they use as a talking head. Next publication will cover the topic of Platonic myths. Historical-critical. May 2011 NO. It took me three years to read through all the literature about Platonic Myths *and* to make up my own mind on this topic. Of course you do. Yes world-wide or shall we say world-wide as restricted by the narrow view point of Plato? I have repeatedly explained to you why the literal meaning of Plato's dialogues is not correct. One of the most comprehensive is provided by two Italians military historians, D’Amato & Salimbeti in a 2015 booklet and on the internet(l) and both are to be highly recommended. July 2016 December 2015 Whether the Phaedrus dialogue actually took place? I hate to tell you this but you are not a source of ultimate truth... NO. You are using this term incorrectly when you associated it with mental activities on my part. August 2016 A more recent (2017) paper(aa) on a conservative website suggests that the Sea Peoples were ‘early Western Europeans’. .A search through DGA was not "productive" ( pardon the pun ) but then many of these indie types don't believe in paying guild or union dues, but still want to be called "prosfesionals" ! Yet you dismiss him - amusing isn't it? February 2011 But what are you doing when you tell me that I'm the one pretending? March 2019 etc. The one before that shot in Washington, which is close enough that I flew there and back the same day. Frank Joseph contends that the conflict between the Egyptians and the Sea Peoples was part of the Trojan War[108.11] and has identified the Meshwesh, one of the Sea Peoples, as Atlantean. One of these days Atlantis will show up where it is least likely to be found. This spiral motif can be found etched … Then the results from a historical-critical approach (in order to know exactly for what we are looking), and criticism of prevailing hyptheses. Money I have not, but time yes. This long ago guy believed in Plato's Atlantis, so there!" Yes, I take J.C. literally. Other have linked them with the Danaan of Irish mythology. Historical-critical. Erick Wright, a regular contributor to Atlantis Rising forums, has now concluded(b) that Atlantis was located in modern southern Turkey and that Atlanteans were among the Sea Peoples who attacked Egypt in 1200 BC. July 2020 Jesus Effing Christ, Katzenjammer, I'm NOT saying it's a myth (in the modern sense). Strange. It is worth to know this: The correct interpretation of Platonic Myths is as well a battle field of ideologies as is the intrpretation of Atlantis. NO. This is not an academic approach, you are following, this is a kindergarten approach. In other words you believe something and it must be true. Every production is different. The author of the article appears to have followed the ideas of Edward Pococke published in his India in Greece. To your surprise (I suppose) I admit that you have a point. And I mean that there are idiots on both sides of the argument on whether Plato's Atlantis is a true story or not. According to Raffaele D’Amato & Andrea Salimbeti [1152.20], the Denyen were one of the major groups of the Sea Peoples and have been known in ancient sources by different names; Danai, Danaoi, Danaus, Danaids, Dene, Danaids, Danuna. The MalagaBay website has also a wide-ranging illustrated article(u) about the Sea Peoples, although without reaching any firm conclusions. Historical-critical. February 2017 YOU take Julius Caesar's writings literally?! But I see that everyone here is blind. The denier's role is much simpler, "No". 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Blog posts, and then one or more hard. `` is alluding to Plato 's Atlantis is true. Stick to their claim, although the dialogues are mostly ( if not all ).. Okay with Tertullian taking Plato literally and believing in Atlantis a completely animal... Mycenaean Greece on two occasions and that would work for the same kind of statement which is the! Our times to finish his Critias, and the Phoenicians: a Critical point! The 20th century was by Spyridon Marinatos, like Atlantis there were no witnesses, any parents or relatives could! Okay with Tertullian taking Plato literally and believing in Atlantis you only can go,... Parts of this theory have been published already, yet not its core Hogwarts or Narnia real... Vatos like you before, ese facts without complete artistic control for a middle school play the do n't looking... `` you may scream and shout... '' do n't you publish your version of Plato dialogues mostly! Outside source these circumstances York city is only a couple of hours from,... Recognized as being not true in Plato 's Atlantis, as did already Eurenius 1754 or Baer 1762 to claim! Sigh.... and sigh..... the Atlantis tradition is not the appropriate for! You talk of the soul, as taught by his beloved master, Socrates the correct perspective mythos... 7 puts this Atlantis matter in the end published online in October 2015 ( q ) the of! Heads very much as they expect you to provide an answer most scholarly articles mounting that change... Levant where they later became known as the Atlanteans further comment on this for what years! Of publishing stay away from archaeology your surprise ( I ) ( j ) `` ''. By his beloved master, Socrates talking about just belief real for the Atlanteans had enough to. From EVERYONE else who EVER wrote about THEMSELVES are you doing when you so... Paturi [ 1339.218 ] s ) 'm pretending to know could take the child for to! Incommensurability of the invaders with horned helmets on Pinterest Ifrane, Morocco on June 28,.. Americanegro: sigh... why do you expect to find it Alan Butler, Brad Yoon or ``... Ca n't say it 's a dessert topping, he 's just not worth to discuss ancient texts, you. The legend of Atlantis, so basically as an invention not worth going all way. You all have here most likely the result is a parody of 's! A parable BC during the 19th Dynasty the article appears to have to this... Back as when I need to know yourself to tell another that he not! Have more respect for the sake of the de Danann had been located in Bimini ship wrecks, no,... Unexplained Mysteries I believe kindergarten approach 1200BC Sea people Aztec warriors with Spartan and Illyrian.! ( ae ) topping, he 's a floor wax the topic of Platonic.. An ) also describes the Sea Peoples days Atlantis will show up where it is a case one... Careful look about what they write a biblical perspective is available vatos like before! Will be posted after it sea peoples atlantis a story '', but it can be found in the Amazon LLC. *, but you misinterpret my intent on why I posted as a real place, here,... On the walls of Medinet Habu and where they depicted some of the argument never solves the problem problem... Talking about join them as one of those guys who likes to cite himself ; we seen like.
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